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SCHLICK, William T. On Assignment on Pine Ridge Reservation as senior Interior official:

Described the nature and object1ves of the study. contracted for by the Department of Interior, to be done by Touche, Ross & Co., an audit and review of all relevant policies procedures. and transactions of the Oglala Sioux Tribal Council and the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

Wilson, Richard.President.of Oglala Sioux Tribe:

The reservation has been in a state of upheaval and tension, brought about by dissident groups» individuals~ intending to dissolve tribal governments, revoke the constitution and by-laws. White men used "manifest destiny" and "Christian conversion" to steal Indian land; etc., over 100 years ago finally forcing the Indians to surrender the BIA under the War Department was an absolute ruler through the superintendent. The Indian Reorganization Act of 1934 was the first opportunity for Indian self-government, democracy, but opposed by a strong minority. Wilson describes the president tribal council functions. The tribal government has protected the land interests of Indians against encroachment, hostile congresses; has protected tribal sovereignity and had to expend money which could have been used for human resources development in fighting the U.S. governrment in the courts to guard treaty rights. The Wounded Knee takeover dealt a serious blow to tribal government, since the Federal Government suspended tribal operations during the disruptions. Negotiations were not cleared through the tribal council or chairman. The organized church and professional activists should not come in and tell the Indians how to run their lives. An activist group advocates abolishment of tribal council and constitution, and to replace it with a return to the 1868 treaty "with the superintendent running the whole show with a few puppet traditional chiefs and headsmen". The people will not support this idea; the traditional chiefs are dead; Wilson doesn't want "the superintendent bossing our lives". The practice of the same people always being in tribal government is effective in retaining their services and experience to the tribe. And the many factions on the reservation is very similar to the political situation in the rest of the country. The tribal government has set up many programs, etc. of which the following are examples; tribal land purchase program, to keep land in Indian ownership, public housing program; home for the elder1y, set up and operated by tribe; community halls. head start program, health care program; ranger program, to protect wildlife, etc.; Neighborhood Youth Corps; manpower, foster and grandparent programs; passing own laws, ordinances and operate own Court and jail; honor farm for prisoners, raising cattle, to support jail, airport; moccasin factory; planning a plastics plant; Well drilling. etc. Instead of talking about the 1868 treaty and traditional chiefs and headsmen, Indians should talk about unemployment, housing, health. poverty, etc., on the reservation. Tribal council resolutions are sent to the BIA Agency Superintendent for concurrence, signature and Wilson did not experience any overrulings in his period in office. There has been no attempt to lnfluence himself or council on this reservation by the BIA, but it might take place on smal1er reservations. THE BIA submits 'cut and dried' budgets to the council, which the council doesn't change, and can
only recommend change after the fact.

What the tribe needs is help in providing work for Indians, not a change in governmental structure. Wilson organized his "auxiliary force" of police in response to a threat over the phone from Russell Means to have a victory dance in a hall in Pine Ridge to celebrate the takeover of the BIA building in Washington. Wilson denies ordering any beatings or suppression of political activity, or that it took place. Wilson states that Wounded Knee took place because AIM failed to dislodge him from office and organized a car caravan to the village, but he is ignorant of their specific motives. Federal marshalls were called in by enacting resolutions from executive committee, filed through the courts, because of threats by Means and Bellecourt to burn the BIA. Wilson doesn't know why the FBI set up roadblocks. Wilson occasionally gets money for trips from the BIA. Money appropriated for Indians is ripped off by excessive administrative costs and 45% of the budget that the tribe receives from BIA is for administration; but Wilson doesn't know the percentage that the area BIA agency takes off the top. The low turnout in elections on the reservation is due to a transportation problem, not to a misunderstanding of the nature of the democratic, election process. Wilson would support a federal route of appeal from tribal court decisions, but he thinks it works all right now. The need for legally trained judges, eg. lawyers, is not great, since the courts handle mainly misdemeanors and the cost would be prohibitive. Wilson would prefer to have the tribe run its own law enforcement, not the BIA, but it was turned over because of an inadequate budget, where now the BIA gets over four times the previous law enforcement budget. Wilson's actions restricting the right of assembly on the reservation were passed as a council resolution, No.7265. during the state of emergency of the Wounded Knee takeover, allowing him to "put down anything that the American Indian Movement will do on this reservation

Stoiber, Carl Attorney, Civil Rights Division Department of Justice:

As head of the Indian Rights Task Force of the Civil Rights Division, he discussed first the jurisdiction of his office, and their administration of three basic statutes: a general civil rights conspiracy statute, section 241 of 18 USC; Section 242' of the same act, a criminal civil rights statute dealing with color of law deprivations of civil rights; and section 245 of 18 USC, and provisions 8-1-8 and B-le, prohibiting injury or intimidation of people participating in Federal programs. Then the manner of investigation, and the provision of final approval.for prosecution coming from Washington, not the local U.S. attorney. Out of 55 civil rights related complaints received by the division during the Wounded Knee confrontation, 34 were closed as lacking. prosecutive merit, 15 are pending or still being investigated, three are moving up, having been found to have prosecutive merit, and three are in tribal court. There is a further breakdown of the nature of the complaints, according to alleged violators, and type of complaint, on page 24. The Civi1 Rights Act as now written are hard to use in courts to enforce Indians rights, because of the specific intent, or willfulness, requirements, the two actions prosecuted all the way to trial were lost, although the facts were pretty clear-cut. One answer vis-a-vis civil rights might be to amend the 1968 Civil Rights Act to cover employers
with less than 25 workers.

Longbrake, Jamie, Administrative Officer, Service Hospital, Pine Ridge, S.D.:

Discussing the budget of the hospital, for fiscal years; '71 - $1,842,900; '72 - $2,426,138; '73 - $2,361,430; and part of the breakdown for the increase in expenditure. Eligibility requirement for receiveing health care is to be an enrolled member of any Indian Reservation, not specifically Pine Ridge. Eligibility for services at other facilities, which cannot be provided at the Pine Ridge Service Hospital are to be an enrolled member of the Oglala Sioux, residing on the reservation, or have resided on it in past year. No facilities for alcoholics at hospital; Indians are referred to a State program in Wyoming, Which Longbrake says is inadequate to provide treatment, detox, and rehab services to Indians: what is needed is a regional Indian Health Service facility, and more local, emphasis. There are transportation problems creating difficulty for people in outlying areas of the reservation, in obtaining health care, although 12 health service community representatives travel throughout the reservation, but this is still inadequate to meet the needs of the people. Also submitted with Long brake's testimony was a report on the drinking problems among the Oglala, compiled by the Mental Health Staff of the NEW Public Health Service, out of which the Hospital is operated.

Babby, Wyman, Area Director, Bureau of Indian Affairs, Aberdeen, S.D.:

Long term effects of the Wounded Knee incident will not be beneficial to Indian people; revolutionary objectives of overthrow of the constitutional tribal government must be completely rejected regardless of the motives, and support must be given to the established government. The BIA has consistently encouraged good government, working within the tribal government structure, and Federal agencies and programs, especially OEO, have aided the communities to gain experience in handling their own affairs. In Babby's opinion, the BIA could change any tribal code provisions that it didn't like. for some reason. but it hasn't done so. BIA policy in the past has seemingly been concentrated on assisting Indians to leave the reservation, and then to cut them off when they were outside in the urban areas. While at the same time, doing little to help them to stay on the reservation. The BIA opposition to the bill of Abourezk in the Senate. to require the BIA to go to the Congress and ask for authorizations periodically. Which would allow review of BIA policy. is the resu1t of administration. i.e. executive branch. opposition to the bill. Change must be made in the tribal government system, since there now exists built-in conflicts of interest. since the tribal council and chairmen control the legis1ative. executive and judicial functions. But with respect to the treaty. no one but the proper representatives of the tribes should deal with Congress on them.

Lyman, Stan, Agency Superintendent, BIA:

There is no one at the area office who is assigned to work on reform of the tribal judicial systems; there are other priorities. e.g. saving Oglala land from passing out of the reservation. But on the national level, there is a full-time person working on training tribal judges in law, etc., developing a model code. The number of cluster housing units built on the reservation, despite Indian feeling against such housing, in preference for individua1 homes, was the result of the plans already having been in process. Discussion of the determination of the number of eligible voters, or Qualified voters, on the Pine Ridge reservation, and the counting of those both on and off the reservation. With reference to the initiation of a constitutional amendment by petition, Where the constitution says that the petition must be signed by one-third of the qua1ified voters; Abourezk is questioning vis-a-vis the lack of any distinction in the constitution that supports the BIA "entitled" voter list, as opposed to qualified voters. This, Abourezk feels, allows the BIA to. manipulate the number of signatures required so as to make it easier or harder to initiate a petition. Lyman, and Babby draw a distinction between a secretarial election, where the number of qualified voters might be different and more, than the number of voters in a tribal election {but this is very confused, and later Babby and Layman say that there is no such difference in elections, but the manner of initiation of amendment). Discussion of the unit land grazing systems whereby the BIA leases out units of land to operators', i.e. those who wish to graze cattle, giving some preferences to Indians but generally to the highest bidder; the land to be leased is put together by the BIA , and if an individual Indian land owner wishes to' not 1ease his land' that is respected, but if the land all around is leased, the BIA can do nothing to prevent trespass by those cattle. has no money to provide fences. and most Indians cannot afford to build their own. There is no program of financial. technical. etc.. assistance. available to a group of Indians who wished, e.g. to set up a cooperative to run cattle. Further, an individual Indian land owner could not run cattle on his own land without going through the unit grazing system. Testimony that a public utility, seeking easements over Indian land would not get it without the consent of the individual landowner, unless if there existed a right-of-way, where it was determined that the right-of-way included a right to run. e.g. phone lines, through it. this would be done without the consent of the individual landowner, provided he was given compensation. (Note: Babby and Lyman are answering Abourezk's questions together so the degree of separation of
statements is not indicated; they are both qualified on all.)

More from Babby and Lyman: Discussion of the BIA planning of Indian's expenditure of money, when they are on welfare, and receive lease income over $500: the BIA can tell them how to spend their money. Then, discussion of the BIA general assistance procedures, eligibility, application. and the transportation problem, again, for Indians living in outlying areas. Discussion of the inadequate BIA educational programs, effect on the children and teenagers on the reservation.

Mr Rooks, Director of the Housing Authority

Discussing the needs and status of the housing situation on the reservation. The Brook Amendment, providing that no more than 25% of a person's adjusted income is to go for rent, such that with, e.g. welfare recipients, this may be only $5 per month, and the result is that low rent revenues from the people stifle the housing program. The housing authority gives the people on the reservation only the choice, up till now, of moving into cluster housing, or staying on their land, whether. or not there is shelter available on their land.

Holy Rock. Johnson, representing the Wounded Knee residents:

Discussion the first of all of the problem of Federal laws and Congressional regulations superseding tribal constitutions and by-laws, changing federal regulations and the resultant confusion. The trust relationship between individual Indian people and the Federal government puts a strain on the authority of the tribal government. There is a need to liberalize the laws and regulations on the building of housing on the reservation, to allow individuals more of a chance to utilize his own land. build with less costly materials: allow less than full standard-meeting house construction, but still provides the Indians better homes than they have now.

Frank Fools Crow, Lakota Traditional Chief:

Claims that if superintendent who was in charge of indian reservation would have been removed as it was promised, things would have been different. He condemns the BIA and the Government's failure to keep its promises. Crow states that he has been threatened over the phone. Agency job should be filled with Indians.

Charlie Red Cloud:

Claims that what is needed is a superintendent who knows the people and runs affairs fairly and keeps things honest on the reservation. There is a lot of money coming into the reservation, yet people remain poor. A lot of promises have been made, yet none kept; no jobs and no education. Such a lack also turns Indians into drunks.

Gerald One Feather President, Landowner's Assn. :

Feels that the administration of trusts have to be separate between tribal and individual. To do this first the council must separate and identify who they are dealing with. Then there is too question of what right do individuals have under the trust responsibility. What is needed is legislation that could allow landowners to join together and be recognzed by Secretary of Interior. Indians should have some sort of consent clause in any legislation concerning them so they can deal with institutions that are making decisions for them. Old people have too much acreage under their control so any agricultural set-up must deal with this social struction in its formation,

Mr Underbaggage:

Claims that there are people who are very qualified to become policemen, do not because of lack of protection. Gives an example of how the state has come into the reservation and taken jurisdiction over matters it cannot; in area of FHA they use state laws for repossession and this enables them to come in and use state instruments to deal with individuals who have an FHA loan.

Ellen Janis (Chairman, Gunnery Range Development):

The Air Force seems to have retained 47,000 acres of the best grazing land and waterho1e. This retained area also is used by the National Guard who are talking about holding it for six months. This area is also affected by reflector lights that interfere with farming and ranching operations.

Russell Means, AIM Leader:

Talks about the fact that he was issued a restraining order not to attend meetings on the Pine Ridge Reservation. No reasons were given for the issuance of the order. Was subsequently arrested for attending a meeting. AIM goal is to terminate the wardship status that now exists (based on sovereignty issue: and self-determination without permission) Dick Wilson was not impeached even though six of the largest districts (out of 8) voted to have him impeached. So, it seemed to the Civil Rights Organization (an organization made by AIM for they could not be involved in an internal struggle of this nature) that all avenues of redress were closed so they resorted to AIM. In conjunction with tribal elders' they went to Wounded Knee for spiritual reasons. Trader, Czyzynski, holds the area in bondage to the extent that he holds the peoples checks until they sign it over and pay their bills. Such bondage: also influences the Indians how to vote. Second reason' was the 1858 treaty which states that any non-Teton Sioux or white that did not have permission from the Indians to be in western South Dakota was acting illegally and the U.S. Government has to remove them by force - what better example than that of Czyzynski and his deal. Overriding fact was also that peop1e needed protection not only from police of BIA. but also from auxiliary force, referred to as "goon squad". Goon squad has harassed him personally and his lawyers .Accuses Mr. Tom Conray Sr. of fat-catting at the expense of Indian land. Accuses George Gustafson (BIA worker in dormitory of Pine Ridge) of molesting young girls and then eventually being promoted to education specialist. As far as Indian sovereignty and its relation to Wounded Knee he feels that the 1868 treaty should be dealt with by proper congressional authority and to be able to deal with the U.S. as equals. Condemns cluster-type housing as a breakdown of the traditional way of life. Questions the fact that Dick Wilson's salary has increased from $9,000 to $18,000 in less than 8 months; the' fact that Wilson's bodyguard is paid , from the ranger fund; and, a new position has been created for Wilson's wife. The Catholic Church is the largest landowner. on the reservation. Since rest of land of Western South Dakota is owned in the eyes of the Federal Government system then they should , contend with these people in making the necessary reparations. Indians have never been offered on alternative, they have been im- posed with tribal governments, tribal policemen and you have courts this way. Indians have some right; to disagree amongst themselves and crime is not inherently Indian since it also prevails in Chicago and New York City.

Ramon Roubideaux (Attorney for Russell Means) :

Sovereignty is a legal issue - It's a matter of international law. Indians never surrendered. They negotiated peace with U.S. Wilson and his "goons" have harassed and threatened Indians. Even after Wounded Knee "goons" have kept up their ways. Wilson has threatened to kill Gary Thomas if found on reservation - is this all indications of a peaceful government? Indians have had it and are worse off with BIA. Wounded knee is the outcome of killings, harassment and threats on Indians

Gregg Zephier (Yankton Reservation):

Tribal chairman was ousted because he wanted an signed a resolution to put up $125,000 for Mean's bail and this money was won from claim against the government. Council voted him out in round-about way.

Robert Burnette (Mission, South Dakota):

BIA is .buying off Indians an sending them to Republican Convention. Tribal Chairmen's Assn. (a Nixon creation) is new center where Indian leadership is selling out. Grants pertaining to Indians serve to buy corporations for private individuals. Puts in question Rosebud budget and what it really should show. FHA and it's legalities. The government is full of watergates. They, the government, should carry out their dealings with Indians fairly and squarely.

Vernon Song (Pres., Civil Rights Group):

No police protection since Wilson took over. Since tribal council did not help and Indians don't want BIA and the U.S. does not respect treaty provisions Wounded Knee was best answer. Indian lands were taken and owned by others - a bigot and the church.

Dave Song'(Vice.;.Pres. Oglala.Tribe):

Need for home ownership program, not cluster. rental housing Indians are even afraid of using their agencies. Refers to Welfare matters and it's procedures. If government can help other nations get built it should help the Indian Nation as well.

Delores SwiftBird (Former tribal judge):

Judges now on reservaion are not legal. They are Just Wilsons appointees. Problems stemmed from suicides to drop outs. Schools on reservation are quite inadequate. Schools had been throwing Indian kids out and this is against Tribal Constitution

Louis Bad Wound :

Seeks total separation from American Govt. BIA is not acceptable agency. Eliminate Tribal Council

Hildegarde Catches (InterDistrict Council) :

BIA is Indian's biggest trouble. Community should be in the bard governing the lndian people

Birgil Kills Straight (Council Member of the Kyle Tribal Council) :

Secretary of the Interior is in full control of Indians. The tribal govt. is a quasi-sort of government. Tribal govt. did not follow legal procedures and Indians had no redress: Outcome was Wounded Knee. Other reasons were police abuse and lack of civil rights. Tribal pres. has all the power.

Gerald Clifford (Staff Dir. for Coalition of School Brds.) :

Unless basic principals of Justice are not maintained by people of integrity there shall be no justice. President of council controls
cash so, therefore, controls justice.




Healing For Wounded Knee Senate Hearings Page

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